Talk:Bulletproof
Disputing information I want to dispute information found on this wiki. And in many guides that I have seen on the internet, yet, seems false. "The reduction to armor recharge time stacks with other reductions to armor recharge time multiplicatively. With Die Hard aced, this skill aced, and the Technician tier 6 bonus." I have yet to see changes in the "Armor Recovery Time" other then Technician tier 6 passive. I have been playing as "techforcer" for a long time, and since I have a large ammount of armor I can say that is false that all regenerates on the second it starts. Whenever I jumped from a roof (and lost all armor), and was later shot by guards, I would sometimes end up with 30% ~ 80 % armor, in my opinion, meaning that was shot during regeneration. Not a common issue, (or even easy to replicate), but with some attempts, could be done. I have even seen someone on the "http://steamcommunity.com/app/218620/" page showing 2 instances of armor regeneration, and the skills he had, showing that die hard increased around 17% recovery time (in frames), and was rather an useless skill to ace.... but was unable to find it again, as it was an image, from someone I do not record the name of... even bulletproof aced was of little impact in armor regeneration, since it skipped few frames, being expensive skill for that cost... So, I ask, do I remove the information that seems false? Or do nothing, but dispute here the info? Because, I dont even have a screen record tool, nor the will to make the experiment, to prove in frames that the information is incorrect. I do remember that he had over 200 fps in his experiment. Duente Zaibatsu (talk) 12:58, August 7, 2014 (UTC) Source When I wrote that, I was taking my information from this guide. I personally have not done the testing for armor regen nor looked through the relevant source code, but I'm under the impression that Frankelstner had done so when he wrote the guide. He probably explains the mechanics more clearly than I have, and the rest of the information from his guide seems to be accurate, but again, I personally can't vouch for the accuracy of his description of the mechanics. I believe there are other factors involved in armor regeneration than just the regen time. For instance, enemies shooting at you (even if they don't hit) can reset the timer, which may make it tough to judge the exact time taken. As for what to do, I'd say this talk page is probably the best course of action unless there is some image or post you can produce to back up the info you are suggesting. At the moment, the only information I've seen or heard of is what I wrote in the article, but if you can cite some source that rebuts this information, I'd be glad to see it added to the page. P.S. For reference, here is the relevant passage (as far as I could find) from the cited guide: Acing Bulletproof does the same thing as Die Hard aced and the Technician tier 6 bonus: They all reduce the time until the armor regenerates. The formula when all skills are active is 0.75*0.85*0.9. The default regeneration time is 3 seconds, which can therefore be lowered to 1.7 seconds. Offline mode has a regeneration time of 1.75 seconds, which can be lowered to 1.0 seconds. Armor regeneration itself is instantaneous despite the armor bar seemingly filling up. This can be checked in the game: If you take damage while the armor bar is filling up, your new armor level will suddenly jump to the correct level. E.g. you had no armor left, the animation of the armor regeneration starts playing, but you were hit after it had regenerated just some of your armor. Your new armor level will then instantly show the correct level, i.e. 100% armor minus the damage you have just taken. '' ''Armor does not regenerate when enemies shoot in your direction. Dodging does not help here either. Upon being shot at, the armor regeneration delay is not only reset, but also blocked from running down for 1 second. In effect, when shot at, the regeneration takes 1 second longer than the times stated above (provided you take cover instantly). Only when taking damage by other means (falling, grenades) does the armor regeneration use the proper delay. For the regeneration to be blocked, you are required to be the current target of the enemy (i.e. standing next to a teammate who is shot at will not count against you) and the projectile should be less than 60 cm from your head at one point. This includes gunshot impacts on the cover you are hiding behind. There's an exception when projectiles fly past you and hit something, somewhere: In that case there is no distance requirement. Thus standing on a hill helps slightly against blocked armor regeneration. The enemies are fairly good shots though, so the effect is negligible. Kattusite (talk) 08:16, August 7, 2014 (UTC) I understood that, I also see that guide, and it all seems fine, however, since most of the data there indicates such small diferences, (like 10% of a 1 second delay), this seems way too complicated to test. However, it "feels" wrong, since the game may have altered its logic, and/or single player logic and multiplayer logic is different. I have searched for more information on this subject, but have not found consistent information. This is an issue of little importance, however, what I am confused about is how about the wiki stands on third party information. In descriptions alone, we have 2 different terms, "Armor Recovery Time" and "Armor Recovery Rate". Since we have a "recovery rate", I would assume that either there is a mismatch between descriptions and what a skill really does (this is common on the payday) or that there is a misread from it, like people that think that threat influences dominations. What I would want is, do we have some sort of speculation tag to use on the wiki, or do we remove un-confirmed information, or do we do nothing?? I mention the Domination thing, since I had to dispute info there as well, and this does not seem like a good way to "fix" the issue, by having each person state their minds. Yet, I have no better way myself. Duente Zaibatsu (talk) 12:59, August 7, 2014 (UTC) I agree... this isn't ideal, but it is somewhat hard to find technical information on this game without checking its source, and I'm not fluent in lua. It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that the skill description isn't properly worded. Like you said, that's the case for many of the skills in Payday. As for the wiki's policy and the speculation tag, I'm not really sure as I'm still relatively new at using wikia. Perhaps if you asked one of the admins they could help out more. Update: I tested and confirmed ingame that offline mode has a shorter regen time than online mode using HoxHud. I found a snippet of source code that seems to suggest that armor is replenished immediately, though as I said before I am not fluent in lua. Kattusite (talk) 18:35, August 7, 2014 (UTC) Well, thanks for testing anyway. I guess this is finished then. I will leave info that "seems" wrong unchecked Duente Zaibatsu (talk) 00:02, August 8, 2014 (UTC)